Crash Perm - Accidents

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Accidents

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crash in Perm

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→ Date: 16 years ago (24.12.2009 01:00)

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This disaster was not caused by the pilots, but the handiwork of people who are so organized summer job in the airline. I read the conclusion of the MAC in full, there are all about one thing: the documents proving that the necessary training pilots no raid negligibly small for FAC at this type, and in general the role of the FAC had no experience. I was terrified when watching and for pilots and for Pax, as many goose bumps during the fall ... To what do need to bring the system to like this here. Well, I understand the technical failure .. And note that almost all the disasters of the last time on phozhim-saving reasons, the safety of flight. Actually, I for myself concluded that the fly can only large, proven by airlines in Russia. This is my IMHO. I understand that not always have a choice .. but so far the situation has not changed, it is better to train. − A-N-G-E-L-7-7, 16 years ago, #

I will not speak for the system because I can not just know, but there is a lack of preparedness of the crew, unfortunately ... And minus the leadership of the company, which has committed to such ... They had to be put, because sure, it all started from there. Fish rots from the head ... If at least steering the flight of the complex were decent people, I think this would not happen, since neither the FAC nor the latter had no right to remain in the booth on the basis of their level of training. (this is indirectly saying and materials investigation.) It is a pity that it has paid for the ordinary people who wanted to simply get from point A to point B, and for their hard-earned ... − disp-nrsk, 16 years ago, #

better on the train - and train derail ( − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

1) Not always. 2) more likely to survive! − LainerRRW, 16 years ago, #

А всё вышесказанное это и есть- СИСТЕМА. − zingit, 13 years ago, #

Именно про эту катастрофу: "Не ездите поездами РЖД- на них падают самолеты Аэрофлота", юмор, конечно, здесь не уместен, но всё-же.. − Vladimir_76, 13 years ago, #

The same video was shown at the closing session of the commission to investigate the disaster, but there it was like a long, but then even cell phones at all selected to infa not leaked to the media. Apparently someone still stole ... − Wishmaster, 16 years ago, #

No ratings ... But read the report of the IAC, completely. There all the same as 1B1, apparently it was. A mounted in my view quite plausible. While watching ants on the skin ..... for those who do not read the report will be informative, I think. − Mihail Stepanov, 16 years ago, #

Split THEY night. Do not lie to people that ETA sick fantasy believable. − Wett, 16 years ago, #

Passengers sorry for the crew is not - so clever to drop the 737th must have the ability! Spot hits the nerves pohlesche horror movie. Read obscene ... R·S‹. 5 set, as opposed to a monster comes back count. − dinsoft, 16 years ago, #

Memory of all those who ... − Striker_912, 16 years ago, #

I now * You can not understand - well, drunk (on of. Version), well, the second pilot green (although also not clear how its such a pilot's seat planted), well, anything is possible. But why did he disconnected the autopilot so early? Would sit himself up to the last pen HDG, SPD and ALT cool. And problems with the feedback display would not have ... − Vasiliy_M, 15 years ago, #

Guys. Listened to a recording of this several times and by chance there any time I caught - listen as you are: "contrary to the other side" at 05.38. So it seemed to me or is it really so, but his voice is clearly both the tone and timbre quite different from the voices we hear before that time. - This time. Of course it may just be a personal perception. I can be wrong, but that's of interest to compare the voice with the voice of the CF-320 which crashed under Mezhdurechensk in 94 (this is where the boy gave steer plane was). On the record clearly audible voice - and find this record (it is online if you find the contact skin) and try to listen to this and that and compare. Something I have a vague doubt that this is a piece of me taken away. IMHO, do not insist - just a remark like that happened. − odanav, 16 years ago, #

Past, current and then fell 310, not 320 ... − KIVLAR, 16 years ago, #

Sorry. opyachatka. Yes there is but the 310th was. − odanav, 16 years ago, #

Again mlyat artificial horizon blame. Even if I were sober. FAC piled on the back of the plane stress remembering indication AN-2 or AN-24, on which he produced there. Helm tugged a little and went to the left until it stops. − scorpions, 16 years ago, #

Indeed, the feeling is that the guys for the first time Bobik sat. as soon as they switched off the autopilot, they immediately rushed pi .. yes on snags ... − modest1, 16 years ago, #

It feels that the crew just got confused in his actions. − Yakut, 16 years ago, #

... saved on training with all the consequences ... − Georgian_Airways, 16 years ago, #

About education IAC wrote that like the crew was in the full amount. I think there are several factors: the loss of spatial orientation + lack of experience (in this type) + neslazhennost actions of the crew, that's all led to the tragic conclusion of the flight (my opinion) − Yakut, 16 years ago, #

Crash very rarely happens because of something one. Typically errors, omissions, negligence, and even overlap to a crime as long as their sum does not reach critical mass, does not exceed the MPC so to speak. Of course ultimately to blame for the crew, but I have the impression that they are almost deliberately to the lead, not prepared, not trained, assigned the inexperienced KVSa, and would not let him rest and sleep, and put on a defective aircraft. Mess! And not just us. In the United States recently started reducing the crew slept. And all because of the pursuit of profit. − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

Gentlemen do not mate in the air, and in the carriage, and this is quite usual, the other when the commander defy the second, it is very hit the nerves, they say they have a mess in the crew had already begun to taxi to the balls! there is no hint of sletanost crew and besides, the phrase FAC "... what speed should be f. ..", I just dobila, it has yet to fly with an instructor and fly! evident that the crew just zachuhan, but not drunk, so why is pi us! can talk a lot, and the result ...! refrain from estimates! eternal memory!! − pilot_bg, 16 years ago, #

And this is due to the fact that in the cockpit of two men. We psychologists have a term "small group", the number of people in it is given by 5 + -2, ie 3-ex to 7 people. So this group can work effectively, the third (odd) will be smooth and will not be an absolute confrontation. We had a crew on the Antonov An-2, the commander of the Tatar, Bashkir second, hot guys, so came to the point that they're right in the cabin fight . But as to the pilots, they claim was not, and they flew without incident, then in all Aeroflot was strictly, and much better prepared pilots and planes were newer and in good repair, and not those razdolbanye Bobik, coffins, with wings and security or who are not saving. − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

may, I agree, but you must also pick up these crews! We managed to fight on yak b fur the second, and calmly drove the FAC, and served as both diruschihsya! I kept to what should be the FAC, in any situation calm and cool, and this little fact in the theory is weak, so even nachchinaet second Nadra Th ... by killing his "authority"! GҐGІG® not a crew! − pilot_bg, 16 years ago, #

No rating. Thank you for the material. Motivation and consistency of decision-making crew is very interesting, and that is the value of this recording (I am referring to information from the CVR, and not only record the ether, which was published earlier). As for the level of training of pilots, the MAC expressed quite clearly: in these pilots had no baseline skills of piloting aircraft with spaced engines. It's a shame that because of that so many people had lost lives. Accusations of "necrophilia", "Necromania" etc. reject the because the sake of future lives saved, we must know how to do. And now we know that if the pilot turns to the passengers' drunken voice, "that definitely need to go, open the door (if already closed) and jump onto the platform. It is better to break legs than like this here ditch because of the two "do not have basic skills." − slyalikov, 16 years ago, #

А модель то от вилко! − Bonifaciy02, 13 years ago, #

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Ооо, серьёзно? − StepiK, 13 years ago, #

I have the feeling that the pilots are afraid of the aircraft. − Santili, 14 years ago, #

Allow me to inquire where to get the record CVR? − Vadim8, 14 years ago, #

Yes, video is not from priyatnyh.murashki throughout the body. − ark6697, 15 years ago, #

Neeet guys all still there that it was time pozharku and quickly pulled up. A report on non-standard situation on a plane without airing I think everyone knows how. Just if it was a terrorist attack had just let go in the direction of oil refinery, the pilots reluctantly did. Simply, it was decided to shoot down the plane, and implicitly - to catch the wing. A fake audio you know ... Muzhiks sorry, left for them. Even cattle left ... Posthumously. Land they rest in peace. Analysis of audio here http://walter-simons.livejournal.com/146198.html − MarcusPreston, 16 years ago, #

Well, yes, yes, all that was * sarcastic * − Gran_D, 16 years ago, #

Paul Perm can not distinguish the "Bank Angle" from the "do not change course." − FireFly, 16 years ago, #

Svetlyachek, thank prosvyatil. Attended agree with you completely, comment deleted. − dinsoft, 16 years ago, #

Quote "to bring down aircraft implicitly - to catch wing" It takes a lot of hard work. Anti-aircraft missile does not get in a specially selected design element. Force ZSU do the same so hard. Now if only short-range fighter with a gun but ... − SIDWINDER, 16 years ago, #

I've heard several times this record but have not seen this movie, I still believe that the crew allowed myself to drink alcohol painfully inadequate behavior, especially during the fall of a coup and there was no response and when the land is already under the overhead was they realized that they were null *** y ... − DownSet, 16 years ago, #

absurd death − tehnolog, 16 years ago, #

Sometimes "lepaya" death? − tserg, 16 years ago, #

In video 5, and the crew -5. I watched not long ago about the tragedy in Perm. So it turns out that the captain even no 1000 hours, as in ordinary normal. − Grixa_95, 16 years ago, #

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Yeah, the first pilot of 400 hours, Vtorov - 200 !!!!!! − pilot-bess, 16 years ago, #

As the IAC report read? The commander-4 000 +, for Mutt 1200, a second-10 000 + 200 + on Bobik. − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

tin. ubilis themselves and people killed. turns out we trust their lives to people in the cab .... − Fireworker, 16 years ago, #

No comment ... − Aviakem, 16 years ago, #

Read the report on the investigation into the disaster ... here is a short excerpt :",,,,,, At 23:08:55, after the value of the left bank has reached 30 V°, and the rate again was less than Vref, the co-pilot asked the commander to take ("... take control and take it, take ..!), apparently realizing that he did not handle the plane. However, the FAC at this point also was "not in the way of flight" and was not ready to take control: "Yes, that" take ", ntsz, I too can not !".,,,,,, ... ... ... ... ... ... without comment and evaluation ... the earth down. − mohnurka, 16 years ago, #

This is the first impression of the talks - but they are also in drabadan! two drunk CIMERA in the cockpit! But if you do not make comparisons - talks normalkom state - conclusions skorospeshny. − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

No, they all did it in a sober state. This is better or worse? − FireFly, 16 years ago, #

And what's the difference? − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

... and on those lines someone drew attention to? "A forensic examination of remains found FAC" the presence of ethyl alcohol in his body before he died. "42 The other members of the crew of alcohol in the body before death is not found" - so that not only fatigue. − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

And again: "The most likely causes of increased psycho-emotional stress were the presence of FAC alcohol in his body and / or accumulated fatigue, and, most likely, a combination of these factors." − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

Che ponyatno FAC tired, drained and now ........... − Marsak, 16 years ago, #

DrSnake, if two drunk simmera, it would be all right. Simmeram with a jar of beer "to fly a usual thing ... (The saying of military pilots: a sober pleasure to fly ... but unusual). The crew was not drunk, I'm sure. Fell ... perhaps from fatigue head stopped to think. The only thing that if they had someone said "you guys will break after a few seconds, then surely there would gather strength and to complete the flight is normal ... although likely would send just the one who said so would ... Question - why not use the autopilot during the call. Haha it was in manual mode switch if this uncertainty is present and tired? − Albert Sl, 16 years ago, #

Yes, I read the report. Traces of alcohol - not only and not a decisive factor. Rather, a fatal inconsistency in the engines and all the same notorious horizons. − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

If a crew OK ", obvious problems with the iron. − DrSnake, 16 years ago, #

Young people have enough to discuss and condemn the pilots ..... Just remember the first day of the disaster showed the eyewitness account of grief, like a comet 735-meters, so what kind of pilot error involved. Pokopaytes on Youtube there is an interview and even on my video, here and think that it could be. And the program people and the law rummage, there Pimenov clearly leads to the fall in the Earth ... they rest in peace ... − Chelpanoff, 16 years ago, #

With such congestion could well be the destruction of the aircraft structure, hence the fire. − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

But in the final report on the accident investigation INTER-STATE COMMITTEE AVIATSIONNYYM destruction of the aircraft in the air was not, as evidenced by the lack of debris to crash site back on the trajectory of its motion and closed the valve discharge air (outflow valve) of SARD. Lack of burnt leaves of the tree tops, the upper traces of fire, indicates that the fire originated on earth, as a result of ignition of fuel spilled. The land they rest in peace ... − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

My friend, do write in the conclusion that they who then drove the cab or something like that, of course, and the tops of the trees are not burned, and the destruction in flight no. They write as required .... And the fact that he was falling like a comet that was. By the way, why a half hours before the expected landing at the airport of Perm have to pull fire trucks and ambulances because of drunken pilots ?????? Absurd. And about the alcohol, yes. People were writing sms-ing, before departure, that cap is not very said, but it can and vnaturebyt feature of speech that pilot. − Chelpanoff, 16 years ago, #

Chelpanoff, where it is documented - in half an hour before the expected landing at the airport of Perm have to pull fire trucks and ambulances! Or are your thoughts? − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

Pimenov - the main spec for a plane crash, his colleagues in the whole of Russia spoke of "drinking Squadron, and Youtube - fount of all wisdom ... − disp-nrsk, 16 years ago, #

MAC wrote as they say above − ROMANFLAIT, 16 years ago, #

Simpsn, something that soon fire trucks began to pull over a couple of hours before the disaster, documenting no one will, in fact the spread of this information is extremely undesirable for those whose responsibilities include documenting this tragedy ... Can you almost say with absolute certainty that the 1 / 4 of the population of Perm podverdit this information. And the source of information is just a staff of emergency services due to the airport ... − DrYsH!@K, 16 years ago, #

1 / 4 Perm already lit up the whole web of his omnipresence. Can you at least enlighten them a little? For example, for how long the flight from Moscow to Perm. − FireFly, 16 years ago, #

To educate you, if it offends their ignorance in matters related to aviation. To state the above to know the time of flight between the cities and "prays" RLE at Tu-154 is not necessary. − DrYsH!@K, 16 years ago, #

Not necessarily. Enough to be able to read and think a little. A report shows that from start to finish flight lasted exactly two hours. Where and in honor of what in Perm "pulled up ambulances and fire equipment" for a couple of hours? Maybe there is a barn on fire? In short, nothing nowhere and she pulled up the history of another bike become famous 1 / 4 of the city. − FireFly, 16 years ago, #

"Where and in honor of what in Perm" pulled up ambulances and fire trucks "for a couple of hours?" - This is a very interesting question, because really it is not clear) "is the story of a regular bike become famous 1 / 4 of the city - if I had information from unreliable sources of random, believe me I would not again raise the issue, which irritates many precisely because that some people (not necessarily belonging to become famous 1 / 4 of the city) possessing this information, has embarked on the arguments, showing their complete ignorance in the field of civil aviation. I'm not going to draw any conclusions, just confirmed that fact pronounced by Comrade. Chelpanoff is the place to be. − DrYsH!@K, 16 years ago, #

When you listen to the crew, it seems that they are in the process of reading a textbook on piloting the 737-second of each other and do not understand, but on the VARA they have no time at all, the horror ... Let the earth will rest in peace! − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

Oh, boys!! Horror! I do not want to offend anybody! But such an impression that the pilot was performing a sunset (as I understand-2P), the first time sat at the helm. And most importantly, the speed! The impression is that he just dumped the plane. Look what uncertain movement helm! Sorry! Let the earth will rest in peace! − Antares, 16 years ago, #

came in to land FAC − Georgian_Airways, 16 years ago, #

Antares: you are in the simulator does not beat a case? Georgian_Airways: do not know what to write. − Jethawk, 16 years ago, #

http://www.mak.ru/russian/investigations/2008/vp-bko_report.pdf All is planned, all explained to ... − VPP, 16 years ago, #

Sam cockpit conversation was not heard, but the guys with the IAC said voobsche better not hear no doubt that pravda.Rolik cool made, the earth down. − 26139, 16 years ago, #

Do not even heard of these negotiations, but the crew of a neslazhenny was once the nerves had all ... − UHWWAviator, 16 years ago, #

the impression that the talk with App distracted the crew from piloting ... − aiRoNe, 16 years ago, #

Are they a pancake ... talked about fishing? − Sanovich, 16 years ago, #

BSF whole reason ... − idealist, 16 years ago, #

What do you mean "drunken voice"? The fact that the voice of "looks" as if drunk, so I know 3 people who are so constantly say that they have a style of speech. And on the topic - indiscriminately accuse these (and all other) pilots that they were drunk - it's wrong! Maybe the person before that flew 4 flights in a row, and so R·R°RґRѕR»R±R°R»SЃSЏ, we've got no information about the flight schedules at the time, so nobody can say exactly how well respected the work and rest of the pilots. And the fact that the blood traces of alcohol - so now, under stress or fright in the blood is ejected epinephrine, hence the traces of alcohol. Next yourself think. − ILAS, 16 years ago, #

pilots were not drunk, it was fatigue, govoili that they had the previous few days were the flights and almost no rest. − pro100gamer, 16 years ago, #

Exactly. Everywhere drunk, drunk-delusion of some kind. The fact that sletannosti in the crew was not, because it so clearly. Most likely, possibly confused testimony artificial horizon. − Antoha154b1, 16 years ago, #

My wife is a doctor, after the wiretaps she said she could speak so either drunk or in a partially paralyzed man. With this speech he did not hesitate to radio communications, since the launch of its VAR slept with the first phrase. If they got it inspected to 100 pounds. App would be handed over. − scorpions, 16 years ago, #

We have a FAC in the crew this way and talking, I've listened to records found incredible similarities, I have as much spine pobezhali.A mat is a usual thing, the more so with a view to cost savings in flight training and another parallel provoditsya.Passazhiry-fly and pilots are trained! − dominator71, 16 years ago, #

Eupator Kolowrat! Ghastly is! A crew of some strange, or drunk, whether obkurenny, a supplement mate in radioobmene! − korsar795, 16 years ago, #

When an emergency on board, I doubt if you'll express himself the language of Pushkin and Esenina ... − Stakan, 16 years ago, #

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We will communicate the language of Batu)-I mean "Old-Tatar" − Georgian_Airways, 16 years ago, #

This pilot should keep calm! You saw a documentary on the Tu-104, on the basis of these events was even filmed feature film "Once again about love". There FAC all the time to explain the fall of quiet (as far as possible) voice, why he can not bring the aircraft ( "missing corner stabilizer), and only in the end, just before the land" Tell mother ...". After this catastrophe has been corrected this error designers and Tu-104 was the best aircraft of its time. That was a real pilot! − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

Indeed pilot with a capital − Stakan, 16 years ago, #

I agree with the Falcon, but in the mat was radioobmene before the fall, before the reversal of such! − korsar795, 16 years ago, #

I'll have to look again, I heard the mat just before the fall − Stakan, 16 years ago, #

Yes, he (FAC) there all the way matter. I do not know what there is a check-list (map) in front of HRG on the 737th, but he has in him the only censor the phrase was "Gear Down". − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

3-m centerfold first mate sounds − dinsoft, 16 years ago, #

Math is not radioobmene, and internal communication! If they radio their mother would be from Moscow was not released, but also on the flight were removed! Actually mate in the cockpit is a usual thing, when you sit behind the wheel, too literary put it? − dominator71, 16 years ago, #

Then talk about vnutrekabinnyh negotiations. Swear in the cockpit, this case is normal, but all the way to him talk, creating an anomalous situation in the cabin. I have never seen a commander all the way pits were eventually lined one and all mat. − Сокол, 16 years ago, #

Full pi ...!!! − serg09, 16 years ago, #

At first they vzglyat vypevshii and on NTV this is not pokzyvali there Toko chtoto average and here and heard Assistant − sphera13, 16 years ago, #

shorter than the nightmare :((((( − sphera13, 16 years ago, #

Yes, there a piece showed on the news. It was the day when the Nevsky Express undermined ( − LainerRRW, 16 years ago, #

devil ... scary, scary and ridiculous ... − pro100gamer, 16 years ago, #

About this video a long time ago on NTV said. And yutube he hangs from August. IAC will not do the reconstruction in Sim at 735 Wilco! − LainerRRW, 16 years ago, #

Provoked this video, incidentally, a good swirling shit in the forums, including and avsime. See the topic about the disaster in Perm. Cockpit recording, can and official (though its no where not), but the video 99.9% - no. Eternal memory lost! − LainerRRW, 16 years ago, #

What's the point?? Easier to become? And you're sitting in a chair at the monitor to simulate life and 10% of the environment that was in the cab and in the air, Brad utter .... − RF-01037, 16 years ago, #

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IS NOT BRED. IS sick imagination. In Durko such powers NEED − Wett, 16 years ago, #

Shift Squeeze! − LainerRRW, 16 years ago, #

finish cap, will Durko explain what r / o give − lockon, 16 years ago, #

Author, I saw EBV-filming, as falling overboard VP-BKO.B ... I can not look like this! In fact, before the ground, he almost at an angle of 45 gr. (Included) in a straight ! blow flash ... And no one, not when (according to Soviet) force of habit, do not tell the truth! Land down ... − wegass, 16 years ago, #

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+1 − dinsoft, 16 years ago, #

well done lad − Georgian_Airways, 16 years ago, #

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BREHLIVOE SHIT. − Wett, 16 years ago, #

Wett can dry up? nothing intelligent one of you have not heard, and hardly hear after your speech, blasphemy is something that you permit yourself to the commentary on this video. − pro100gamer, 16 years ago, #

Well done in my opinion. And yet how terrible it is ... − xumka, 16 years ago, #

Refrain from assessing .., voice KVSa in the cockpit is similar to the voice of the official version radiobmena. Dimon, he voiced or somewhere picked up? Yes? No? − SVT, 16 years ago, #

This is the original record of the negotiations. − Ant0n1o, 16 years ago, #

It would be good to explore cockpit recording in full. Give a link, if any. Entry negotiations have already listened to. − Mihail Stepanov, 16 years ago, #

Dimon, go better than Pepsi drink ... − qip88, 16 years ago, #

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But seen from the conversations that there is no chain of command in the crew there. The commander of the commander did not sit for a couple of foul language does not even know what to do. As these pilots made? A pilot tone on the lead connection to the land could not see what he is drunk, and the fact that he was tired of trite routine negotiations night flight, long flight very exhausting, and if you listen to the record of negotiations for 30-40 minutes until the fall the pilot's voice is normal and perfectly adequate. − Sidorovich1945, 14 years ago, #

http://tfile.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=448752 Permian catastrophe download refresh pamet − pavel1, 14 years ago, #

30-40 minutes before the crash the radio is the co-pilot. − NewPilot, 14 years ago, #

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they march census or Th? on obkurki do not obschayutsya! − Marsak, 16 years ago, #

you hike census or Th? such garbage write − JetStream, 16 years ago, #

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it is blasphemous to chew over again .... this topic. Leave you alone is − whyayeman, 16 years ago, #

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1 − Jethawk, 16 years ago, #

Jet, though I largely gently grya, you and I disagree on other issues, but in this case support. Moreover, even shake Kopytko. Lined movie - inhumane some in the sense that those who really punched Join for disaster and was somehow connected at all with this event in person to watch is "not a reason," as we say. Hell knows, maybe I so think the fact that he buried both the AN-140 (Iran does not count) and AN-74TK-200 UR-74038 ... Oleg aka UR-OLK. − UR-OLK, 16 years ago, #

My hands have to shake and welcome. More porozhayut experts below who are trying to demonstrate their knowledge by experience with Sim. It is equally, if say, the digging is easy, seeing the picture with a shovel, but never powers and not digging it up to this. − Jethawk, 16 years ago, #

"Kopytko" - this is an allegory, like slang. Yassen dick, sho on I would have shook his hand. Not cling, zadolbuet.))) With NG! Or do you literally you understand me?)) And as for the experts, yes, there is such a thing. OLK. − UR-OLK, 16 years ago, #

I also have a sense of humor! PS: fools already put minusiki − Jethawk, 16 years ago, #

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there general flew to Chechnya fought the militants here and draw conclusions. sorry not guilty people! − pavel1, 16 years ago, #

Aha! due to the fact that in the cabin sat gerneral, the crew was so excited that he became tongue-tied and confused the instrument readings. Stop searching sensation where none exist. Almost every razbiveshmsya flew aboard one of "interesting" people. Everything is much simpler and more banal. − tserg, 16 years ago, #

About general it was one of the versions, but unproved, in this context does not fit when in the air collision of two Tu-134 in one of them flew "Pahtokor, say that this terrorist attack, too? − UHWWAviator, 16 years ago, #

Death Pakhtakor 1979 - one of the most terrible tragedies of Soviet football, fourteen players, doctor, trainer and adminitrator tashkenskogo Pakhtakor died in avikatastrofe. − Simpsn, 16 years ago, #

A cho they are better than people who died in a plane crash? For kadogo relative loss of his wife, daughter, mother, etc. insanely terrible regardless of who he (she) - football player, an accountant, a schoolboy laundress or simply favorite people. − tserg, 16 years ago, #

Всё правильно, погибли не футболисты, врачи... Погибли- ЛЮДИ, независимо от профессии и должности. − zingit, 13 years ago, #

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Above the Holocaust are not joking, full of messy! − Artjom23, 16 years ago, #

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Messrs. nekromany you ever thread uspokoetes? Or is among you necrophilia?? − nso64, 16 years ago, #

You do what is written? Necromancers ... necrophilia ...??? You're all about writing? − serg09, 16 years ago, #

Yes, you who said this? − KJC, 16 years ago, #

Blin ... RљRѕRјRµRЅS‚ to someone called? Apparently not to you! − serg09, 16 years ago, #

Tu-154B2

Tupolev ANT-6A-4M34FRNA v1.0

IL-86 beta-2

tu-22m3 panel

Mesh water Kapchagai

AN225YT_xp11

Tupolev ANT-6A-4M34FRNA v1.0